tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post1205681071100915497..comments2023-11-22T09:11:01.567+00:00Comments on George Szirtes: Apologia or UnapologeticGeorge Shttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-13600942829776894402012-09-05T19:52:51.151+01:002012-09-05T19:52:51.151+01:00
TANSTAAFL
<br /><br /><br />TANSTAAFL <br />Gwil Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03305768121713053837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-52313864871652873722012-09-05T18:42:14.985+01:002012-09-05T18:42:14.985+01:00True, though as an ex-student of mine, now working...True, though as an ex-student of mine, now working in Vietnam, with much experience of poor countries in Asia, points out - in such countries, without a social security net, it is only the temple that tends to the poor. To us, who no longer need them in the same way, the religions are generally a curb on liberty - there, while curbing liberty, they also offer basic sustenance.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-85177894041574203702012-09-05T18:36:33.642+01:002012-09-05T18:36:33.642+01:00George,
I think we are basically in some kind of ...George,<br /> I think we are basically in some kind of harmony, but I would just like to add to what I said above. <br /><br /> I see 'Religion Inc.' as a universal club with worldwide factions. People join Religion Inc. ,willingly and/or unwillingly, at various stages in their lives: by birthright, by invitation, by being forced or cajoled into joining, by paying a monthly fee, by simply walking through the door, by taking an oath, or by signing a paper, or donning a uniform, or simply by sitting under a tree. The members basically agree to abide by the club's rules and conditions if even if they are at times unjust and complicated. So diverse and so full of self-interest are the various factions of Religion Inc. that strife and conflict often breaks out within Religion Inc. and as disease does, spreads also to non-members. <br /><br /><br /><br />Gwil Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03305768121713053837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-70007145076956344692012-09-05T16:32:50.159+01:002012-09-05T16:32:50.159+01:00Completely with you there, Harry. Precisely the ki...Completely with you there, Harry. Precisely the kind of thing on which Hitchens in particular was dead right.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-21846843700791178392012-09-05T15:51:00.338+01:002012-09-05T15:51:00.338+01:00These are becoming pressing issues with the rise o...These are becoming pressing issues with the rise of the Christian right everywhere being encouraged as they are by the political and cultural inroads being made by the fundamentalists in the US.<br /><br />The guy touted as Northern Ireland's next Minister for Health, for example, is a Young Earth Creationist who believes the earth to be only several thousand years old. All these fossils lying around are just remains of animals from the flood, of course... sigh... why should a Health Minister be concerned with developments in science any way?<br /><br />He opposses women who have been raped having the option of abortion based on his interpretation of an ancient text:<br /><br />http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/dups-jim-wells-abortion-should-be-ruled-out-for-rape-victims-16202088.html<br /><br />I'm all for toleration when it comes to personal belief, but when fundamentalism becomes a political force that threatens hard-won rights it must be vigourously opposed everywhere.<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Harry.<br /><br />Harryhttp://scrapandtreasure.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-47770252809113318142012-09-05T15:27:32.354+01:002012-09-05T15:27:32.354+01:00I suspect we are in broad agreement on these thing...I suspect we are in broad agreement on these things. The distinction between faith and religion is precisely the one I am concerned to draw. I am, for all that, aware that a one-person faith might, at an extreme, be merely an eccentricity or even madness. I am also aware that people find common ground in their faith and get together to form churches and that each of these churches may vary as much as the churches St Paul spent a lot of his time visiting and writing to.<br /><br />Eventually these churches become formal institutions (see the third part of Spufford's book) and that brings other potential problems into focus. The houses of religion can be quite different from the faiths of the individuals that comprise them. Hence the orthodoxies and heterodoxies and heresies, and all that follows.<br /><br />Which is not to say that I personally would want to condemn this or that specific church - just to express a keen scepticism about their nature and a strong resistance to their injunctions.<br />George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-79851184622584974272012-09-05T14:27:05.980+01:002012-09-05T14:27:05.980+01:00As far as I can see, which is probably not very fa...As far as I can see, which is probably not very far, 'religion' and 'faith' are two different coins rather than obverse sides of the same coin. <br /><br />I can't visualize an agnostic having faith by definition i.e. of 'not knowing' but strangely I can imagine an atheist, someone like Dawkins, having a kind of faith in something, it must not be a God, it could be simply in the power of the 'mystery'.<br /><br />I see religion as a control of people system. You don't even need a lot of police and soldiers if you get everybody to join. Faith on the other hand I see as individuals connecting themselves in their own particular way to the universe/s <br /><br /><br />Gwil Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03305768121713053837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-51304895274194105742012-09-04T23:31:08.260+01:002012-09-04T23:31:08.260+01:00Yes, Dawkins can be a prat. He endorsed the 'B...Yes, Dawkins can be a prat. He endorsed the 'Brights' Movement and wanted to replace the word atheist with bright (as in, 'I am a Bright'), claiming it was a less off-putting word, apparently oblivious to the provocative implication: Theist=Dim. <br /><br />And Harry, yes, doubt is a good thing I believe. I worship in the church of doubt, which is partly why the poetry of RS Thomas and Milosz appeal so much to me (though I have room for Larkin's Aubade too). I like Martin Amis's take on agnosticism, as an acknowledgement of ignorance. Now, I'm off to see a programme I taped: Horizon's 'How Small Is The Universe.'Mark Granierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09899629187771913398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-33563469183885580212012-09-04T22:24:53.205+01:002012-09-04T22:24:53.205+01:00As the daughter of parents who were once lapsed ca...As the daughter of parents who were once lapsed catholics but now collapsed catholics i enjoy disscussions of religion. i personally am an atheist however i think i still feel the need for society to have "gods" in its culture for the sake of myth and ritual. i just don't think society has devaloped appropriate alternatives yet. i find Dawkins and his ilk throw babies out with bathwater. In their insistance of denying a god they don't explore the wider functions and effects of religion. They don't preach tolerence and their haranging seems as insecure to me as those who claim a god would care about masturbation. When he tweets like a schoolyard brat he shows no understanding of psychology or faith: no respect for faith as a valid experiance and respect that such things can be a value to the entire human race. i think philosophers are exploring faith more deeply these days and i think Dawkins is as crude as any idealogical preacher.<br /><br />And harry as an artist that last sentance of yours resonated beautifully with mAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-91564652510358582932012-09-04T21:50:56.617+01:002012-09-04T21:50:56.617+01:00Hi George,
Thanks for saving me the reading of on...Hi George,<br /><br />Thanks for saving me the reading of one more book!<br /><br />I tend to agree with your take on young Master Dawkins... he's really doing it to be provocative, I suppose, with his rib caged swelled by the (arrogant?) assumption that reason is on his side in all matters... to me it is a 'reason' though that can't be complete if it does not take the full experiential realities of human life into cosideration (how could it then be fully reasoned?), which includes irrationality; is he proposing some sort of sanitised and therefore inherently inhuman 'reason'-based cutural revolution? Sometimes that's the impression I get.<br /><br />It does seem to me however that the most authentic religious people are more characterised by a direct experiential doubt than by belief in simple truths created or adopted by their own, small human brains (real doubt I mean, not just cynicism, say). I think artists are in a good position to understand this, as they have to rely on a sort of doubt when they create; they have to empty themselves of certainties in what they are doing in terms of results (to express it in negative terms... big general statement that, but I'm just throwing it out there).<br /><br />Regards,<br /><br />Harry.Harryhttp://scrapandtreasure.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.com