tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post2400241500139939553..comments2023-11-22T09:11:01.567+00:00Comments on George Szirtes: A Very Modest ProposalGeorge Shttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-22688291432377761912009-12-02T22:30:32.504+00:002009-12-02T22:30:32.504+00:00Welcome, Julienne.Welcome, Julienne.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-82646932407803383712009-12-02T20:55:11.473+00:002009-12-02T20:55:11.473+00:00Many laughs at your original post, and then apprec...Many laughs at your original post, and then appreciation for the ensuing discussion on male/female generalizations.<br /><br />"In the long run we need each other." I wonder what it would take for Greer to understand that, write it, mean it.Juliennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02613806813449648742noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-11098013125577802412009-11-28T20:39:33.782+00:002009-11-28T20:39:33.782+00:00George, here's a whizzer!
"I say, IT...George, here's a whizzer! <br /><br />"I say, IT's not very big is IT?"<br /><br />"Aye appen tha's reet lass, thow IT's big enuff ter fill yon pram:"<br /><br />best,<br />GGwil Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03305768121713053837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-72181722823744118942009-11-27T18:20:22.986+00:002009-11-27T18:20:22.986+00:00As a man I feel more generalised against than gene...<br>As a man I feel more generalised against than generalising. Generally.<br /><br />Still speaking generally, the non-physical tortures devised by men would be more straightforward - generally speaking - than those devised by women. I don't immediately propose putting this to the test.<br /><br />I think it's rubbish about fear stopping men from raping women. I have never in my life wanted to rape a woman and I would guess most men wouldn't. My suggestion is that the woman being willing is a major part of the pleasure for most. I cannot answer for the criminal, but do resent the assumption I am one. I want a concrete charge against me so I can sue.<br /><br />My other guess is that we know very little of female desire because to reveal would be to render vulnerable. Power and vulnerability are not confined to either gender. Generally speaking.<br /><br />Modern science can provide reproduction without penetration - but I suspect this could work both ways pretty soon. Meanwhile, back in the millennia till now there was no in vitro. Clever old male science, eh?<br /><br>George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-38508797756622525732009-11-27T14:17:52.573+00:002009-11-27T14:17:52.573+00:00Good answers, Mark. Will pick up some points once ...Good answers, Mark. Will pick up some points once I am home this evening or tomorrow morning..<br /><br>George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-23523302927797614602009-11-27T13:11:02.264+00:002009-11-27T13:11:02.264+00:00'I think the question that arises out of Greer...'I think the question that arises out of Greer, Mark, is that if all men are rapists why are there not rapes all the time? What's stopping us?'<br /><br />Yes George, though I imagine Greer (and Dworkin etc.) would respond by saying that most of us are afraid of the consequences of obeying our instincts; that we lie to ourselves, pretending that we are more civilised than our true nature (that which we avidly fantasize about).<br /><br />'What I dislike about Greer's and Dworkin's arguments is that they are addressed not to 'doing' but 'being'. That is the worst and lowest human argument.'<br /><br />Yes, that is partly what repulses me too.<br /><br />'Furthermore, given that the human race is continued by way of acts of penetration Dworkin's argument meets with certain practical difficulties.'<br /><br />But the penetration need not be carried out by actual men. The WRIP (Women Rulers of an Ideal Planet) could breed or possibly clone some of us (that sadly necessary 10%) and take our seed for artificial insemination, as we presently do with cattle. <br /><br />'Women deal out psychological harm, men hit each other and occasionally kill each other. Women bully long and mentally. Men bully short and sharp by establishing physical domination.'<br /><br />I know you're speaking of generalisations George, and I actually agree with most of what you say. But I do think it's important to point out that men are also excellent at mental bullying and psychological harm, especially through the workplace and institutions (religious, educational, etc.). And of course there are many forms non-physical torture, most, if not all of them, probably devised by men.<br /><br />'Women are just as capable of hating men out of fear (perfectly understandable fear) as are men of hating women out of frustration (perfectly understandable frustration).'<br /><br />Yes, and as I've said before, it is interesting how misogyny's parallel word, misandry, is so (comparatively) unfamiliar. <br /><br />'In the long run we are all dead. In the long run we need each other. In the long run we discover that.'<br /><br />Amen to that, big time!Mark Granierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09899629187771913398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-30955673410030931882009-11-27T11:41:31.456+00:002009-11-27T11:41:31.456+00:00I think the question that arises out of Greer, Mar...I think the question that arises out of Greer, Mark, is that if all men are rapists why are there not rapes all the time? What's stopping us?<br /><br />What I dislike about Greer's and Dworkin's arguments is that they are addressed not to 'doing' but 'being'. That is the worst and lowest human argument.<br /><br />Furthermore, given that the human race is continued by way of acts of penetration Dworkin's argument meets with certain practical difficulties.<br /><br />Greer proposes that men hate women, but I don't think that is the case. I think men desire women (plural) and it is transference of that desire that results in violence, which some women actually welcome in due and restricted proportion (as do some men). That is compounded by the mother-son relationship where the son both wants to be - and needs to be - independent, yet to maintain mother as last resort comfort. Mothers, in turn, want sons to be independent yet dependent. Women with fathers raise comparable issues.<br /><br />The old rhyme went:<br /><br /><i>Higamus hogamous<br />Men are polygamous<br />Hogamus higamus<br />Women monogamous</i><br /><br />I think, on the whole that, if the rhyme is true, and I suspect it is, more women get their way in this matter than do men, since monogamy works a lot better in complex societies. It is one of the reasons why women stand to gain a lot more from socialisation. Women's weapons are essentially psychological and the ability to say no, both formally and informally. Men's weapons are generally physical and systematic. Socialisation is mostly psychological and is carried out in early childhood, almost exclusively by women.<br /><br />Women fear physical violence: men fear psychological violence. Women deal out psychological harm, men hit each other and occasionally kill each other. Women bully long and mentally. Men bully short and sharp by establishing physical domination. Women are just as capable of hating men out of fear (perfectly understandable fear) as are men of hating women out of frustration (perfectly understandable frustration).<br /><br />I know I am not saying anything vaguely new or particularly perceptive: all this seems to me as plain as the nose on my face, and that is plainer than most noses on most faces.<br /><br />Not that male and female interests are ever independent of each other. Despite all kinds of tensions men and women are capable of great kindness and tenderness towards each other, and are in fact, much of the time, willing to offer such kindnesses and deep, devoted, clear-eyed love.<br /><br />In the long run we are all dead. In the long run we need each other. In the long run we discover that.<br>George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-34318373126362893872009-11-27T10:48:22.642+00:002009-11-27T10:48:22.642+00:00Absolutely George, might as well fling mine into t...Absolutely George, might as well fling mine into the stew (since they are at least partially Irish, Swift would approve). <br /><br />This article from 2005 partially explains Dworkin's attitude:<br /><br />http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article380787.ece<br /><br />Greer puzzles me though. She wrote an article some time ago in which she made some very good points about rape; how one of the stigmas attached to it (the idea of a woman as 'damaged goods') could be as damaging as the act itself, if not more so. Then she effectively obliterated her own argument by ending it with a variation of that tunnel-visioned call-to-arms: all men are rapists, in thought if not in deed. What flabbergasts me about this kind of thesis is that (a) if it were actually true and (b) if you actually managed to convince a sizable proportion of men to agree with this 'truth', then (c) it follows that these men would be presented with a perfectly adequate excuse to carry out their fantasies in the flesh; being men, they are already rapists anyway, so why not?Mark Granierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09899629187771913398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-71667387056448999182009-11-27T09:09:05.707+00:002009-11-27T09:09:05.707+00:00Reading the Signs - thank you for the pointer to R...Reading the Signs - thank you for the pointer to Ruthie's. I will glance at it at times of great stress or whenever I think of tapas.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-82814737305661145162009-11-27T09:07:58.550+00:002009-11-27T09:07:58.550+00:00Oil is in plentiful supply, Billy. Hope you enjoye...Oil is in plentiful supply, Billy. Hope you enjoyed your holiday.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-5074305562975155892009-11-26T23:42:14.069+00:002009-11-26T23:42:14.069+00:00George at his mischievous best :)
My recipe for o...George at his mischievous best :)<br /><br />My recipe for old men's testicles. <br /><br />Soften in salt water for at least three days. Simmer for three hours. Remove from pan. Slice thinly, cover one side with Bostic and fasten to the mouths of Valerie Solanas, Andrea Dworkin and Sally Miller Gearhart.<br /><br />I've been off *a'gaddin', George. (*Working class English for holidaying.) Logged on to your blog this morning and had my first internet chuckle at: "I myself have one careful owner, just a few spots of rust, with MOT till August and all working parts, though you have to go a little easy on the clutch."<br /><br />I suggest you check the oil regularly :)Billy Cnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-79164556040852736502009-11-26T15:36:58.611+00:002009-11-26T15:36:58.611+00:00Organic? They can play J S Bach!Organic? They can play J S Bach!George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-45053154953269900442009-11-26T15:34:14.967+00:002009-11-26T15:34:14.967+00:00a) but can we be sure that they would be organic?
...a) but can we be sure that they would be organic?<br /><br />b) you might like to check this http://ruthie822.blogspot.com/2009/11/in-appreciation-of-men.htmlReading the Signshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06338983880105866139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-67033178587968607452009-11-26T10:13:20.470+00:002009-11-26T10:13:20.470+00:00You'd have to check that for yourself, unless ...You'd have to check that for yourself, unless you accept written guarantees by nearest and dearest.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4638619958588096610.post-68206807539525220312009-11-26T10:10:14.971+00:002009-11-26T10:10:14.971+00:00You wouldn't have the balls.You wouldn't have the balls.James Womackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15436726394033888723noreply@blogger.com