Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell-phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons. (Associated Press, Dec. 27)
Charles Krauthammer article in
Washington Post,
via Tom Carew.
16 comments:
I must be a cynic, George. The first thing that entered my head was that it was a clever ploy to find out where the arms were. Just telephone everyone with that message, stand back and watch the quick retreat from various houses or buildings and, wa-la, you know where Hamas keeps it's rockets and arms. :)
It is hard to know what is true and what isn't Billy. I hope the story is true. I just feel I have to throw it into the balance. It as an AP story which probably means one can more or less trust it.
Of course the story is true. Why wouldn't it be? Anyway, your theory does not stand up, Billy C. There has been no retreat from buildings because Hamas is not interested in protecting its civilians. Unless you also don't believe the reports about women and children sleeping in houses full of explosives.
Mr S,
You talk about all the ‘decent, intelligent, humane, non-aligned people’ out there, then link to a Krauthammer article?? Which starts with this typical piece of wisdom: ‘Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not.’
*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2009/jan/02/gaza-video-diary
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090112/al_arian?rel=hp_picks
The question, Room, is whether the story is true or not, not whether Mr Krauthammer is an angel or a devil or a mummer in fancy dress.
Frankly, I am not interested in the rest of his article. I am not interested in guilt by association. (K is a bad man, so it doesn't matter whether his facts are true or not, by referring to him, you are being a bad man. Bullshit.) I want to know whether the story is true or not.
If people don't want to know if it is true or not, why not? And if it is true why do I have to read it in Krauthammer, not in The Guardian or on the BBC website?
No, it's a question of biased disregard for the horrible human suffering on the ground, or, if you will, 'bullshit'.
Yes, and is it true about the phone calls? That question is never answered. Why not? I suggest you try to answer it.
I suggest you look at my links, Mr S! Who cares about phone calls?
I do. What links in particular?and why does it not matter that someone forewarns people of an attack?
I mean the links above.
From what I've read, Gaza is the most densely populated area in the world. Can we imagine what that's like?
I am puzzled as to why Notes insists on not knowing the truth about the phone calls. If, as he says, "Gaza is the most densely populated area in the world" wouldn't forewarning the people be all the more important to the preservation of their life?
Maybe Notes would rather they all got blown up, along with the weapons, so his precious hatred of Israel can remain intact and fully vindicated.
In contrast to the care taken by the IDF to avoid hurting innocent Palestinians, check out this story:
"Report: Hamas hiding most potent missiles under Gaza hospital
Israel's Channel One News reported on Monday evening that Hamas is hiding its most potent missiles under Gaza City's main hospital. "
www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx
Room - I cannot see any links at the top. At the side I see only Literary Links. Do you mean those? Puzzled.
Nicole S said...
"Of course the story is true. Why wouldn't it be? Anyway, your theory does not stand up, Billy C. There has been no retreat from buildings because Hamas is not interested in protecting its civilians. Unless you also don't believe the reports about women and children sleeping in houses full of explosives."
Nicole, It was my own nature I was addressing rather than the veracity of the actions. I was hoping George would have recognised the comments as idolectic or ecolectic. (He will have a better knowledge which is more apt of the two words than I do.) Although he and I have never met, we have a sort of understanding.
Just for the record, I am firmly on the side of the Israelis in this current matter. My own analogy (a far fethed one, I know) would be if Scotland were to declare total independance and a radical splinter group were fanatical enough to hate the English so much that they sent rockets flying into England on a daily basis and all that with the aquiescence of the general population and hid their arms in schools and churches and heavily populated areas, I would not be at all surprised to see the English army march into Scotland to eliminate the arms. On reflection, it has already happened in our past.
I hope I have now made myself clear. Being idolectic/ecolectic in a general forum can be confusing. It's all George's fault.
Best regards, Billy C.
Mr S: I mean the links I put above, in this thread. My own blog is irrelevant.
Contentious Centrist: More double-talk. You're certainly living up to your name. Why would you say I hate Israel? I'm trying to draw attention to the suffering on the ground, which we can hardly even imagine in our relative comfort, despite the 'care' taken by the Israeli military. That's what matters, surely. Israel is a superpower compared to the Palestinians.
I think it's very important that the Jews have their own secure state. But hopefully Obama can impress on them in no uncertain terms that imprisoning, starving and bombing an entire population is going too far.
Billy C: (Second attempt to post) Those words are not even in my dictionary, which must mean it's about time I got a new one. But I am no longer confused. Thank you for explaining: I liked your Scotland analogy. Regards, Nicole
"But hopefully Obama can impress on them in no uncertain terms that imprisoning, starving and bombing an entire population is going too far."
That is, I think, going too far. That is why I asked you whether you believed the phone calls were true. You have not answered on that.
Imprisoning: If Hamas had not immediately dismantled the facilities left behind by the Israelis, if they had not immediately set about firing rockets instead of building a peaceful environment, if there were no suicide attacks, there would be no need for what you call 'imprisoning'. Israel is like a besieged city. It has been attacked - and will continue to be attacked from both North and West, and, I suspect, eventually by Iran. How could you leave an open border with an administration that has sworn to destroy you?
Starving: Do you mean starvation'? Like Biafra? Is there starvation in Gaza? Say more precisely what you mean. I think there is a great deal of misinformation on this subject. There is no reason for Israel to be creating more hostility than it was already getting before Hamas took over. That's why they got the settlers out and left what they did.
Bombing an entire population: You mean indiscriminately? Everyone? The whole population? You mean there isn't a military engagement with Hamas who are still firing rockets into Israel and have never stopped? My unanswered question about the phone-calls relate to this. But you never answer that, nor do I expect you to now.
The plea for a ceasefire is generally directed only one way. Did you protest when the rockets were landing in Israel before the current hostilities broke out? Why not?
I agree that the situation is horrible. It is dreadful when people are killed. But if you position guns and ammunition in in areas of the densest population - and Gaza isn't an evenly occupied crowded area, there is population distribution there as every else.
I will look at your in-comment links, but I have almost given up on The Guardian.
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